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Spring Is In The Air

Today is the start of Penn State's spring practice. To the college football junkie this is like taking a whiff of second hand smoke off the crack pipe. It's a time for hope and debate, but nothing gets settled on the field and at the end of the 15 allotted practices you just find yourself wanting more. Hopefully, if Joe Paterno woke up in a good mood today, we'll get a press conference this afternoon and a lot of our questions will be answered. But don't count on it. With Joe's future and contract situation up in the air and half the defense residing in the doghouse I suspect the program will be on lockdown until opening day. And if we do get a press conference I'm sure every question will be answered with some version of "Aw heck, I dunno guys."

So since spring practice is always full of more questions than answers, here are the five biggest questions BSD sees on the board this year in no particular order.

What is the linebacker situation?

In 2006 Paul Posluszny moved from outside linebacker to the middle. In 2007 Dan Connor made the switch to middle linebacker. Could it be Sean Lee's turn in 2008?

The idea is floating around out there, but nobody can confirm or deny it. You need a strong leader in the middle who can diagnose plays and call them out to the defense. Lee certainly fits this bill, but the question is would he be best suited there? And who would replace him on the outside?

Tyrell Sales and Navorro Bowman are both in Paterno's doghouse which puts us a little bit thin on experience if they don't play. We have a ton of young talent with Nate Stupar, Andrew Dailey, Mike Zordich, and Mike Mauti, but only Josh Hull and Bani Gbadyu have any experience. On the inside we have Chris Colasanti who cracked the two deep lineup late last year and saw considerable playing time. Everyone agrees he has the football smarts and the athletic ability to make a major contribution this year. So I'm thinking it makes sense to leave Lee on the outside and name Colasanti the starter on the inside. Josh Hull played admirably last year when Sales and Bowman both went down, so I'm completely comfortable with him on the field. I think this gives us the best set of linebackers we can get on the field until Bowman comes back.

Who is going to step up to provide depth in the secondary?

Justin King is gone. Knowledge Timmons and Willie Harriott can't seem to stay out of the doghouse. That means A.J. Wallace is now the man responsible for stopping the opponent's best receiver. Lydell Sargeant will play the opposite corner after starting most of last year before losing his job to Wallace. But who will claim the #2 spots behing these guys? And who will play the nickel? Devin Fentress? Drew Astorino? Don't be surprised to see true freshman D'Anton Lynn seeing considerable playing time early. I almost wish we still had Brendan Perretta hanging around. Almost.

The situation at safety isn't much better. Anthony Scirrotto is locked in as a starter at Hero. Tony Davis will most likely line up at free safety, but he has trouble staying healthy. He platooned there with Mark Rubin last year. Rubin is a converted wide receiver. He's a good hitter and tackler, but I question his top end and change of direction speeds. All three of these guys are seniors playing in their final year. So somebody needs to step up as credible backups this spring.

By all accounts redshirt freshman Nick Sukay is making decent strides behind Scirrotto. This will be an important spring for him to establish his place in the pecking order. At the other safety all eyes will be on redshirt freshman Chaz Powell. But I suspect we'll see a few more bodies moved over to the secondary from the offense to boost depth.

How's that rehab coming?

Penn State was ravished by injuries last year. Devon Still had to have reconstructive knee surgery before the season started. Jared Odrick had his season end prematurely on a broken ankle against Indiana. Jerome Hayes went down with an ACL tear. Lou Eliades sat out most of the year with a foot injury. Chimaeze Okoli Quinn Barham suffered a season ending broken ankle on the scout team. (Ed. note - My bad!) Tom McEowen suffered a knee injury last spring and was never 100%. All of these guys will be counted on to come back and make major contributions in 2008. It's important they do so. And it's important we not beat ourselves up too much this spring and emerge as healthy as possible.

Who will claim the #2 running back spot?

Evan Royster is the odds on favorite to win the starting job after an impressive freshman year where he carried the ball 82 times for 513 yards and 5 TD in backing up Rodney Kinlaw. But you have to question his durability after sitting out a few games with nagging injuries like thigh bruises and ankle sprains. That's why it's important that someone step up as a viable second option to rest Royster and keep him fresh.

Brent Carter appears the logical choice. He was called in to duty against Michigan State when both Kinlaw and Royster went down. On the final drive he carried the ball three times for 23 yards before Jay Paterno and Anthony Morelli decided we needed to take the ball away from him and try to throw it into the endzone. It probably cost us the game. Not that I'm bitter or anything. Ok, maybe I'm still a little bit bitter. The point is that Carter looked good in the role.

But keep an eye out for Stephfon Green. The former high school track star reportedly lit up the first team defense in his time on the scout team last year. The coaches thought long and hard about burning his redshirt last year when Austin Scott was suspended and the injuries to Kinlaw and Royster started to pile up. But when it became obvious that 2007 was going to be a disappointing year they decided to build for the future instead of risking injury to the freshman. Now he's had an off season to grasp the play book and put on some pounds in the weight room. Look for Green to make an immediate impact in 2008.

What was the other thing again?

Help me out here. There was one other thing. What was it? Dammit. I hate when I can't remember things. Oh yeah. That's right. The QUARTERBACK SITUATION.

This spring should feature our first open quarterback competition in nearly a decade (we're not calling it a "quarterback controversy" yet). Daryll Clark and Pat Devlin will be fighting it out to replace Anthony Morelli at the helm.

Clark served as the backup last year completing 6-of-9 passes for 31 yards. He's a dual threat quarterback as he proved in the Alamo Bowl rushing 6 times for 50 yards and a touchdown. He's a thick player standing 6'2" and 232 lbs in the mold of Michael Robinson. But some say he lacks the speed to be an electrifying homerun threat like a Michael Vick or Steve Slaton. What observers say is Clark's real strength is his presence in the huddle and command of the team. But then the observers said the same thing about Anthony Morelli too. Though this time the confidence doesn't seem as fabricated to me.

Pat Devlin was a high school phenomenon in southeastern Pennsylvania where he set state records for passing. Angels blew their trumpets in central Pennsylvania the day he decommitted from Miami to play for Penn State. But then we all know what happened the last time the Nittany Lions got the best quarterback prospect in the state. So, yeah. Thus far Devlin has been quietly lurking on the sidelines much like Morelli did his first two years. He has one career pass attempt that fell harmlessly to the turf against Florida International. Other than that nobody has seen him do anything other than hand the ball off to Brent Carter against Temple. But the ever suspicious "internet rumors" suggest he's got a cannon arm and clearly throws the ball better than Clark.

So the main question becomes which guy is better suited for Jay Paterno's new "Spread HD" offense? Question 1a is how come these guys didn't see more playing time last year? How great can these guys be if they couldn't push Morelli for playing time? If Clark is a natural leader and Pat Devlin could hit a pimple on Charlie Weis' ass from 80 yards away, why were we forced to ride the Morelli train right over the cliff? It's becoming a real pet peeve of mine how Jay Paterno and this coaching staff repeatedly refuse to develop these quarterbacks before they are named the starters.

It should be an interesting spring as always.

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Does not compute
"This spring should feature our first open quarterback competition in nearly a decade"

and

"If Clark is a natural leader and Pat Devlin could hit a pimple on Charlie Weis' ass from 80 yards away, why were we forced to ride the Morelli train right over the cliff? It's becoming a real pet peeve of mine how Jay Paterno and this coaching staff repeatedly refuse to develop these quarterbacks before they are named the starters."

by M1EK on Mar 24, 2008 12:13 PM EDT   0 recs

The thing that bothers me the most is when
any shot at a Big Ten and National Championship was gone (after the Illinois loss) is that the coaching staff still could not give EITHER Clark or Devlin significant playing time.  It's almost as though they were trying to either:

1.  Validate that the coaching staff made the
    right decision naming Morelli the starter.

2.  Validate that Jay knows what the fuck he's
    doing.

Whatever it was, the coaching staff accomplished neither.  Is there any logical explanantion why a program of our so-called elite stature can only produce one NFL quarterback per decade?

by Ab4PSU on Mar 24, 2008 2:25 PM EDT   0 recs

Morelli
I was ok taking him into the OSU game.  He was, at that point, our best chance to upset the #1 team in the nation at home, and I would have been pretty pissed if we'd put Devlin in there just to get him some experience.  The season isn't lost after 2 losses, and any responsible coach knows he has a responsibility to his players, his season ticket holders, and anyone else connected with the program to win every game he can.

This isnt baseball, where some teams are way out of it in the 2nd half and bring up young guys in September to help them with experience.  Its college football, where the difference between 9-3/8-4 and 7-5/6-6 is huge.  Would you like to have seen Devlin blow it in a tight game with Purdue?  I didn't think so.

Yes, they both should have seen significant time against Temple, and didn't, but I'm not going to blame what they do this season on not getting reps last year in the games.

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Mar 24, 2008 3:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Temple
I disagree about the Temple game. If Penn State was the team making stupid mistakes due to inexperience we might have lost that game. If Temple doesn't kill themselves by making supid penalties, etc. they might have beat us as it was.
For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 24, 2008 3:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Personally,
I could deal with 7-5/6-6 if I knew it was with a young team and a chance to gain valuable experience for the following season instead of going 9-3/8-4 and a non-New Year's Day Bowl.  I can remember all through the 80's and 90's when I was absolutely livid and heart broken after the first loss because it meant no National Championship.  Granted, 9-3/8-4 is better than 3-9/4-7, but to me, there is no obligation to players who aren't getting it done.  And also, putting guys in during mop-up time is the same as a glorified scrimmage; no worthwhile experience is gained.  And I could have handled Devlin or Clark blowing a tight game with Purdue simply because Morelli proved that he couldn't win a game in the 4th quarter with a must score possession.

by Ab4PSU on Mar 24, 2008 4:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

NFL Quarterbacks
This argument always kills me.  Like there is some program out that that has ten guys in the league that are any good.

When was the last time Miami put a guy in the NFL that was any good? Seriously, it was Bernie Kosar.

Rex Grossman is making Florida proud.  Florida State?

Michigan has had good one (although they thought Drew Henson was better) and a couple of duds.

Ohio State? I guess Troy Smith got off the scout team for a game or two last year, and I'm sure Krentzel's and Hoying's success in the NFL was inspirational to him.

USC? I'll spot you Palmer (exactly one trip to the playoffs), but Leinert still has some work to do.  Booty's going nowhere, but don't forget about Rodney Peete.

Texas? Vince Young and who?
Shit, even with BYU you have to go back to Jim McMahon and Steve Young before you get anything but a carrier journeyman/back up out of them.

Name a school that has put three quarterbacks in the Pro Bowl in the last 25 years. Seriously, try.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 24, 2008 4:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

NFL Quarterbacks
College teams with multiple Pro Bowl Quarterbacks since 1992:

Michigan:
Tom Brady    2007
Brian Griese    2000
Elvis Grbac    2000   
Jim Harbaugh    1995

Washington:
Marc Brunell    1999   
Chris Chandler    1998   
Warren Moon    1997

Boston College:
Matt Hasselbeck    2007   
Doug Flutie    1998   

Maryland:
Boomer Esiason    1993   
Neil O'Donnell    1992   

Notre Dame:
Steve Beuerlein    1999   
Joe Montana    1993   

UCLA:
Troy Aikman    1996
Steve Bono    1995

Miami:
Vinny Testaverde 1998
Jim Kelly     1992

West Virginia:
Marc Bulger    2006
Jeff Hostetler    1994

Sorry, didn't bother going back 25 years since I found two instances (Michigan, Washington) to refute your point after going back 8 years and 11 years.    

by jerryyng on Mar 24, 2008 6:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I guess I spoke too soon.
The only point I think you proved is that some really sucky quarterbacks made the pro bowl, For instance, I would never have thought in a million years that Elvis Grbac made a Pro Bowl. Not one of those teams has had more than one guy win a Super Bowl.

While you didn't go back 25 years on the Pro Bowl appearances, you did go pretty far back in time to support your position.  Warren Moon, Doug Flutie and Jim Kelly all played in the USFL. Joe Montana played at Notre Dame in the 1970's, Steve Beuerlein graduated in 1987. Jeff Hostetler went to Penn State in the late 1970's before he transferred to WVU because he couldn't get on the field.

Your going to go with Vinny Testeverde as an  NFL success story? Be my guest, but Pro Bowl or not Steve Beuerlein, Brian Griese, Elvis Grbac and Steve Bono were not/are not anything more than a competent back-up journeyman who might win a couple of games for you.

You're right about the Pro Bowl thing, I didn't look it up.  But if that list is the best you can do I think you proved my point.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 24, 2008 7:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

NFL Quarterbacks
All I did was provide evidence to contradict the argument you proposed to support your position.  You proposed the Pro Bowl criteria, not me.  And I only had to go back 8 years to refute your point which I wouldn't consider "pretty far back".  

No where in my post did I suggest that Vinny Testaverde was an NFL success story.  However, Vinny did make two pro bowls and took his team to the AFC championship game which is more than I can say for a lot of other Heisman Trophy winning quarterbacks.

Based on the data, you are now suggesting that using the Pro Bowl criteria is not an effective measuring stick in determining if certain schools are better at developing quarterbacks.  

So what other criteria would you like to use?  
How about most quarterbacks drafted in the past 20 years?  Penn State has had 3 (Kerry Collins, Wally Richardson, Tony Sacca).  MRob is not included since he wasn't drafted to play quarterback.  Can you name any other perennial top 25 school that has had fewer quarterbacks drafted in the past 20 years than Penn State?
 

by jerryyng on Mar 25, 2008 9:38 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Top 25 programs without quarterbacks
Can you name any other perennial top 25 school that has had fewer quarterbacks drafted in the past 20 years than Penn State?

How about Nebraska.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 25, 2008 10:10 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The battle versus the war
You're right, I said Pro Bowl, that was wrong (I said that in my last post too), look at those guys, lots of them suck.  With exception of Tom Brady, most of the ones that are good played in college 30 years ago or more.  

My point was not that Penn State is a quarterback factory.  My point was that there is no quarterback factory.  

If I'm wrong then who is;

Washington? Warren Moon graduated in 1978, that's 30 years ago.

Michigan? They played Drew Henson over Tom Brady! If that's not clueless what is?  

Miami?  I was right, not one decent quarterback since Bernie Kosar in 1984.  That is unless you want to take up Vinnie's case, and even then it's 1986 [snicker].  

Notre Dame? Not one good quarterback since 1987, and that's if you count Steve fracking Buerline.  It's a full generation ago if you don't.

Use whatever criteria you want to determine what a good NFL quarterback is, but get back to me when Elvis Grbac, Vinnie Testerverde and Chris Chandler aren't on the list anymore.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 25, 2008 10:02 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

NFL Quarterbacks
Not so fast my friend.  Once again you have not done your homework.  Nebraska actually had 3 quarterbacks drafted in the past 20 years (Steve Taylor-1989, Gerry Gdowski-1990 and Keithen McCant-1992).  However, none of them really made it in the NFL.  Brook Bollinger would likely have been drafted as a quarterback had he not been killed in a plane crash.

You'll notice that I didn't include Eric Crouch or Scott Frost since neither of them were drafted as a quarterback.

Nebraska was a good guess though.  Nice try.

by jerryyng on Mar 25, 2008 11:18 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ummm...
Those guys all stunk. It's not a competition to have the most NFL washouts, or Wally Richardson, Kevin Thompson would count.  Hell by that logic Morelli will probably count.

Your still missing, or simply not addressing, my point.  Or is your answer that Nebraska is a quarterback factory?

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 25, 2008 11:24 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

NFL Quarterbacks
I merely asked you to name a perennial top 25 school that has had fewer quarterbacks drafted in the past 20 years than Penn State.  You answered Nebraska which was incorrect since they have had just as many drafted as Penn State.  

As most people know, Nebraska has traditionally employed a run oriented offense.  Therefore, very few elite high school passers have attended Nebraska which would explain the lack of NFL caliber quarterbacks to come out of Nebraska in the past 20 years.  

I completely understand the point you are making and I would have to agree with you.  There are no schools with a history of consistently producing NFL quarterbacks.  

But let's take a step back for a second and ask a different question.  Are there any schools with a history of developing good college quarterbacks?  There are a few that come to mind (USC, Florida, Michigan) but I definitely wouldn't include Penn State on that list.  

by jerryyng on Mar 25, 2008 1:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Why not?
Are there any schools with a history of developing good college quarterbacks?  There are a few that come to mind but I definitely wouldn't include Penn State on that list.

Since 1979 Penn State has had two quarterbacks win the Maxwell Award (Chuck Fusina and Kerry Collins) Todd Blackledge won a National Title and was a first round draft pick, Tony Sacca was a top five/ten draft pick, and so was Kerry Collins.  Wally Richardson and Kevin Thompson both were serviceable starters and had a cup coffee in the NFL. Michael Robinson is a stud, if the NFL can't figure out how to use him it's their fault not ours.

That's seven guys. Not counting Shaffer who was a game manager who lost one game in two seasons, and Morelli who is going to get a look this year at some NFL camp and who made his own bed after having every chance to be successful.  

Once you get it out of your head that by going to Miami or Michigan you are guaranteed to be a success in the NFL, selling Penn State's quarterback tradition gets a lot easier.  We've had our share of good quarterbacks over the years, you can get to the NFL through State College.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 25, 2008 1:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

NFL Quarterbacks
Talk about me going back in time to prove a point.  You had to go back 28 years to come up with 7 guys and find two Maxwell award winners.  If you stick with the past 20 years, you're left with 5 guys and one Maxwell award winner.  If you go with the last 10 years, you're left with 3 guys and no Maxwell award winners.  BTW, Tony Sacca was drafted in the second round with the 46th pick.  (not quite top 5/top 10 as you suggested).  

Again, check your facts.  

by jerryyng on Mar 25, 2008 2:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No Shit
I really though Tony got drafted higher.  Oh well.

I really just write a lot of this stuff off the top of my head.  I am generally just trying to make a point, which I think I did.  You can agree with it or not at your leisure.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 25, 2008 2:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

NFL Quarterbacks
Let's just agree to disagree on this topic.  I think Devlin's success/failure in the next few years will go a long way to answering this question assuming the existing coaching staff remains throuhout his career.  If he isn't successful at the college level, it will have to fall on the coaches since he came out of HS as one of the most prolific passer in PA history.

I enjoyed the debate.  

by jerryyng on Mar 25, 2008 3:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Tony Sacca
I remember he got drafted by the Cardinals. In training camp he was struggling with his control. The coach asked him if something was bothering him and Tony said, "This football is bigger than the one I'm used to throwing in college."

The coach said, "Well, that's the ball we play with, son."

Tony didn't make it in the NFL. Too bad too b/c he was always my favorite PSU quarterback.

Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Mar 25, 2008 2:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe If.......
the defense over the last 10 years hadn't been so good, the offense that you are talking about would get more praise.  Only 3 in the last 10 years has the offense been ranked ahead of the defense and usually its been way, way, way behind in the rankings.  Especially over the last 4 years.  So when the fans spend years watching the team dominate on defense and struggle on offense, the QB is going take a lot of heat.  PSU Iowa.  To me, its one thing to be medicore on defense and bad on offense.  But when you only need your offense to say average 17-20 points a game to win and they don't......it doesn't look good.  Its going to take some consistency on the offensive side ball to eat away at the negative perception held by many of PSUs offense and in particular their QBs.

Only twice in the last 13 years has Penn State's scoring offense outranked its scoring defense.  And more often than not (see the last 5 years) they aren't even close to each other.  

        Off. Def.

2007    45  7                 
2006    72  9                 
2005    13  10             
2004    109  5         
2003    99  30           
2002    13  11               
2001    82  65           
2000    81  54               
1999    18  25               
1998    48  12               
1997    22  37               
1996    30  13   

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Mar 25, 2008 4:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Forgive the typos.
Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Mar 25, 2008 4:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Great Points Jesse...
since im such a "big fan" of tosu...I'll add another log to their fire in naming Art Schleister..."pick a card...pick any card...any card..!"
Old School... MEETS New School!

by BlueWhiteLife on Mar 26, 2008 1:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And I forgot to mention that:
Yet again, we enter the season with experience all over the field, EXCEPT AT QUARTERBACK.  Looks like another 8-4 or 9-3 season to me.  Contrary to what the coaches say (and I think our record speaks for itself), an upperclassman quarterback with absolutely no game experience IS NOT better than an underclassman quarterback with no experience.  At least an underclassman will at least gain experience.  

by Ab4PSU on Mar 24, 2008 2:31 PM EDT   0 recs

This is how Penn State does it for years
Have we ever had a quarterback light up the scoreboard in their sophomore or junior year? It seems like all of our great quarterbacks break out of nowhere their senior year.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Mar 24, 2008 2:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, but
of all the quarterbacks that are regarded as great and hold a special place in Penn State history (Michael Robinson notwithstanding) were three year starters.  Granted, some weren't the starter at the start of their sophomore year but became one due to injuries etc.  But look at all of our great ones who were three year starters in the Paterno Era:  Burkhardt, Huffnagel, Fusina, Blackledge, Shaffer, Collins.  All of them were either National Champions or played on teams that got fucked by the polls (with the exception of Fusina; he legitimately lost a National Championship against Alabama in the '79 Sugar Bowl, but he did have us on the brink, so he deserves credit for being the first quarterback to actually have Penn State football ranked number one).  So I have to disagree with you on this one Mike.  They maybe breakout their senior year, but they didn't come out of nowhere (like Michael Robinson).  The experience was learned in their sophomore and junior years, and their senior year is when it all came together.  

by Ab4PSU on Mar 24, 2008 3:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

M-Rob
Though I was not alive in 1969...most alums I have spoken with from that era would not say the 68/69 success had anything to do with Chuck Burkardt (more like Mike Reid, Denny Okontz and Charlie Pittman). Also John Shaffer was not the catalyst behindt the 1986 title (running game and defense again... D.J. Dozier, Shane Conlan, Gifto and crew)  Personally, I would take Morrelli over either Burkhardt or Shaffer any day.   As for M-Rob....don't forget that he received considerable playing time at QB prior to his senior year due to injuries by Zach Mills.  That is a significant advantage M-Rob had over the two potential starters for this year.

BTW....Thought Guman scored in 1979....I know a lot of people still argue about that loss to this day!

I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?

by pic15 on Mar 24, 2008 3:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

1979
The sad part about that game is that they held Alabama three and out after the goal line stand, but got called for a penalty on the punt (I think they roughed the kicker).  They should have gotten the ball back in great field position with plenty of time, but instead Alabama was able to run out the clock.

I need a drink.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 24, 2008 4:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Burkhardt and Shaffer did two things that
Morelli never did, and that was score when trailing in the fourth quarter.  Remember Burkhardt's drive and two-point conversion against Missouri in the Orange Bowl.  Does Morelli have a drive and finish like that to his resume?  Shaffer managed to drive the team to come-from-behind scores in the 1986 championship season (remember his hellbent, I'm scoring no-matter what run to tie the score at 7 in the Fiesta Bowl?  Morelli would have fumbled (see Illinois)).  Granted, Burkhardt and Shaffer had superior talent all across the board on their teams, but you can't blow everybody out.  There comes a point where you're in a fight, and you need a leader with composure and EXPERIENCE, somebody who can say, "This is all right.  Been there, done that."  It's not new to them.  By their third year of significant time, there is nothing they haven't seen.  And again, everybody can debate this, but the fact remains:  All of our great teams in the Paterno Era have had three year starters at quarterback.  Period.  These QB's varied in style, but all had the experience and poise to handle any situation.

by Ab4PSU on Mar 24, 2008 4:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Shaffer's score...
while awesome, was in the second quarter.
For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 24, 2008 4:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

the second score
was after a Shane Conlan interception returned set us up with first and goal inside the ten.
For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 24, 2008 5:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Right.
But, and I think we can all agree on this, that Miami was so damn good that if we would have fallen behind any more we would have been in deep, deep trouble.  I credit Shaffer (and the team) for recognizing it and getting it done and keeping right in Miami's face the whole night.

by Ab4PSU on Mar 24, 2008 11:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh...
The drive your talking about was against Kansas (1/1/1969).  Penn State beat Missouri 10-3 in 1969 (1/1/70).
For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 24, 2008 5:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

66-1
From seventh grade through the 1987 Fiesta Bowl victory, John Shaffer was 66-1 as a starting QB.  He was a born winner... and owns a National Championship ring to prove it.  Moronelli couldn't carry his jock.

by BSM PSU 93 on Mar 24, 2008 4:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Shaffer
I love revisionist History...

The entire off season after the Orange Bowl, the very notable one in the 66 and one, There was a controversy, not situation, about who should start the 1986 season Shaffer, or wait for it...Matt Kizner.

Paterno did not name a starter after spring practice, after pre-season drills, or indeed until the week of the Temple game.  Kizner even played in the Temple game despite the fact that Shaffer was sharp.  There were headlines which anointed Kizner "The People's Choice".

It's a cautionary tale.  Surely by the end of last season Daryl Clark was the "The People's Choice", just like Morelli was in 2004.  Unfortunately, the people usually don't know what they are talking about.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 24, 2008 4:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well...
I'm guessing you're older than me, Jesse.  I was a freshman in high school during the 1986 season.  However, I clearly recall my dad, uncles, and their friends being vehemently in favor of Shaffer throughout the entire "controversy".  If you say there were headlines proclaiming Kizner the "People's Choice", then I guess I have to believe you (even though it's a pretty crappy and presumptuous thing for a journalist to write).  However, it's pretty hard for me to believe that JoePa ever had any doubts that John was going to be his starter.  It would be incredibly unlike Joe to replace a senior quarterback coming off an 11-1 season with a relatively unproven understudy.  Wouldn't it?  And thank God Joe stuck with him... it's without question that John's experience and leadership played a critical role in bringing home the National Championship.

by BSM PSU 93 on Mar 25, 2008 8:56 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

"The People's Choice"
Was, I believe, on the cover of Town & Gown.  A full detailing of the controversy can be found in the book "The Perfect Season" which is a great book, which records a lot of the oral history of that season.

I was in the Kizner camp myself, I was 10, I was stupid, but I wasn't alone. That's my whole point. "The back up quarterback is better" is the most sophomoric argument in football. That doesn't mean it's always wrong, it just usually is.  I learned that lesson when I was 10, and it has served me well for more than 20 years.  Kizner wasn't better than Shaffer; Morelli wasn't better than Mills; and I doubt very much that Devlin was better than Morelli.  If he was, he would have played.

That's where I was going with the post. I wasn't trying to restart the Kizner Shaffer debates of Spring 1986.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 25, 2008 9:26 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Cool
Town & Gown, huh?  Yeah, I'm somewhat familiar with that publication.  And, again, I can't help but think the writer of that "People's Choice" article was just out to stir up trouble with a title like that... I mean, wow!!

Anyway, I get your point now, Jesse.  Sorry for misconstruing things before, man.

by BSM PSU 93 on Mar 25, 2008 10:24 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Is Shaffer paying you?
He was not a good QB! Our running game and defense got us through the 1986 season!  BTW...does anybody remember 1985 and he F*d up the Orange Bowl????  AND I DO REMEMBER THE KNIZER ARTICLE....there where a lot of people calling for Knizer to be the starter even before the Orange Bowl debacle.   There was also a black kid on the roster that was pretty good, but I believe he got booted out of school for something (please someone correct me if I am wrong).
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?

by pic15 on Mar 25, 2008 10:49 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

23-1
Is my kind of suck.
For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 25, 2008 11:05 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

W-L record
That kind of logic assumes that the QB accounted for the win.   In may days of playing high school and college football and in watching the NFL....I have seen A LOT of QB starters who have great records evne though they personally were not great players.  That is why it is a TEAM game!   I mean Bradshaw was a good player for the Steelers and has 4 super bowl rings....but he wasn't a better QB than Marino or Jim Kelly (both of whom have 0 rings!
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?

by pic15 on Mar 25, 2008 11:11 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Look...
Initially, you said, "personally, I would take Morrelli over either Burkhardt or Shaffer any day".  That's just ridiculous.  Shaffer knew how to win big games... Morelli couldn't win a meaningful game if the other team handed it to him.

More recently, you said, "our running game and defense got us through the 1986 season".  I have news for you, dude.  Our running game and defense got us through the 2006 and 2007 seasons as well... and we wound up with 9-4 records.  Why?  Shaffer was a competent leader and Morelli was an incapable suckass.  That's a big part of it, anyway.  

by BSM PSU 93 on Mar 25, 2008 12:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

To be fair
It's not like we'd have gone undefeated this season with John Shaffer at quarterback.

Penn State's defense in 1986 was supernatural, it wasn't simply good, or even great, it was touched by the hand of god.  They should have lost to Cincinnati (blocked punt in the fourth quarter), Maryland (long interception return while trailing 15-10 and a stopped two point conversion attempt on the last play of the game) and Notre Dame (sack and tipped pass on the last drive), but at the instant the game appeared lost they made a play. Not just any play either, like some crazy oil-painting play. That was just to get into the Miami game.

In the intervening 22 years we have had better offenses, and in my mind, more talented defenses.  But I would put forth that no defense before or since ever made more big plays with the game on the line that Penn State's did in 1986.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 25, 2008 1:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

True
I'm certainly not in disagreement there.  There was something about that group... Conlan, Bauer, White, Giftopoulis, etc., etc.  They had amazing talent, confidence, character, and chemistry.  Those traits gave them the ability, as a unit, to accomplish great things.

by BSM PSU 93 on Mar 25, 2008 1:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

We may not have gone undefeated with
John Shaffer as our QB this year, but I think we could have won 2 of the 4 we lost, and maybe 3.  Let's face it, after that kind of ass-whipping we took from the Fuckeyes, you cannot logically say we could have won that game.  However, I don't see Shaffer fumbling inside the 10 yard line like he did at Michigan and handing them seven.  I sure as hell don't see Shaffer turning the ball over on the last 4 possessions of a one score game like Morelli did at Illinois.  And I think, based on his leadership, Shaffer could have gotten us that final score in East Lansing.  On that drive, Morelli looked absolutely panic stricken, like he couldn't get rid of the ball fast enough.  And he did have some time.

by Ab4PSU on Mar 26, 2008 12:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The 86 defense....
Wouldn't have blown a huge lead to MSU...dude! Morelli played plenty well enough and the offense scored more than enough points to win that game!  By the way that same defense this year gave up a shit load of yards to Mike Hart.  Our offense had the ball 1/3 as much as Michigan....again don't put that loss on Morelli....that was JoePa (for changing the game plan) and the defense!  The Illinois loss is squarely on Morelli's shoulders....but that is the only game I would blame on him!  OSU just kicked our ass!
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?

by pic15 on Mar 25, 2008 1:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Fine...
Seriously, though... defense not withstanding, you'd rather have Morelli as your QB than Shaffer?

Morelli the clueless
Morelli the visionless
Morelli the immobile

Morelli, the fumbling, bumbling, etc., etc.

DUDE!!!!!  Really?

by BSM PSU 93 on Mar 25, 2008 3:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Shaffer's Orange Bowl numbers....
"It was born in the 1986 Orange Bowl, where John Shaffer suffered through a miserable night, completing just 10-22 passes for 74 yards. Knizner relieved Shaffer in the third quarter and immediately revived a dormant offense. But it was a case of too little too late as the Sooners went on to beat the No. 1 Lions, 25-10. In just over a quarter's work Knizner completed 8-of-11 passes for 90 yards."

Knizer struggled his senior year....but he didn't have the same team.   Most of the starters on the 1986 squad were 5th year seniors who decided to stay because Shaffer F*d up the Orange Bowl!

I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?

by pic15 on Mar 25, 2008 11:05 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Is Kizner paying you?
Everything was cool in the Orange Bowl until Massimo Manca bricked a field goal and Jamel Holloway threw an 80 yard touchdown pass to Keith Jackson on a third and 25.  Then we got, as JoePa would say, "out of whack".

1987 wasn't too bad; lost to Alabama (Kizner got knocked out with a concussion, we'd have lost anyway), got crushed by Syracuse (48-21, Don McPherson) and shut out by Pitt (Curtis Martin & and that fat guy...Ironhead Hayward).  

Then we went to the Citrus Bowl and got buried by Clemson, but that was the year Blair Thomas blew out his knee in bowl practice, which in turn killed the 1988 season...

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 25, 2008 11:20 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

1987-88
JoePa should have let Gary Brown run the ball more.  Let's face it....to be honest the 1987 was not a vetern team....Knizer didn't light it up but he didn't have the same weapons either...
Conlan, Gifto, Dozier, Smith, etc. all graduated.
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?

by pic15 on Mar 25, 2008 1:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I was teasing...
...about the payroll thing. It's been so long since I've even heard Kizner's  name mentioned, let alone anybody argue on his behalf. I think he'd be happy to know he still has fans.

1988 was tough because [1] we lost Blair Thomas who was really great; [2] we lost two quarterbacks in the Rutgers game (which we lost, ouch) so we had to play a freshman (who eventually turned into Tony Sacca); and [3] we played a killer schedule - games at both Notre Dame and WVU (Major Harris is still the best player I've ever seen in person) who played for the National Title.  We also played at Alabama and home against Syracuse who was 10-2.

I don't think there was anything Gary Brown could have done in 1988. He did strip the ball from Ty Detmer and return it for a touchdown against BYU in the 1989 Holiday Bowl though.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 25, 2008 2:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Mills
usurped Seneca and then had a very good sophomore year and ended up getting demolished his last 2 years when all the receivers that could catch graduated.

by PSU Nick on Mar 24, 2008 4:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Quarterback
The good `ol days saw two things...

[1] Transition from fifth year seniors to fourth year juniors; and

[2] Routs, lots and lots of routs; where the aforementioned players got their reps for two seasons.  

Prior to the Big Ten, PSU was usually a comfortable favorite at least 8 weeks a year, that's clearly not the case anymore.  The games are tougher, and when you get one in hand you want it to end.  

If you look at it, there was not a ton of garbage time this year.  Florida International was an extension of spring practice; the starters needed the reps there.  Buffalo and Notre Dame were "games" headed into the fourth quarter.  You can't really let up on Iowa or Wisconsin, and the Temple game was much closer than the score indicated.  

With the exception of FIU, I don't think that we played one game last year that our second team would have won easily, and it took the first team at least three quarters to finish off everybody we played.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 24, 2008 3:43 PM EDT   0 recs

Wrong
Kerry Collins had a ton of experience before 1994. According to this article:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_n20_v218/ai_15924171

he was even slated to start in 1992!

" The confidence comes from having his health back. He was supposed to be Penn State's starter in 1992, but he fractured his right index finger in a volleyball game days before preseason camp. He missed more than half that season and then spring practice in 1993 after he reinjured the finger in a humiliating loss to Stanford in the Blockbuster Bowl.

Collins is also relaxed, after experiencing a quarterback controversy between him and John Sacca last year. Sacca began the '93 season as the starter, but Collins replaced him in the third game and Sacca subsequently left school and transferred to Eastern Kentucky. Both have strong-willed personalities, and they could not have co-existed for another season.

"I think confidence is a big key," ABC-TV analyst and former quarterback Bob Griese says. "You can tell he's been around there for a while. He's made all of his mistakes when he was younger. He had that competition with Sacca. Now the job is his and he knows it."

Collins offered a glimpse of the future with a strong finish last season. He single-handedly brought Penn State back from a 20-point deficit to beat Michigan State, 38-37, for its greatest comeback victory in 28 years and then outdueled Heisman runner-up Heath Shuler of Tennessee in the Citrus Bowl."

by M1EK on Mar 24, 2008 4:48 PM EDT   0 recs

Paterno playing favorites
I agree with fugimaster24 that the difference between a 9-3 and 8-4 season is huge, however I think the bottom line is that Morelli played over Clark and Devlin because he was an Italian Senior.

I think we can all agree that Joe is an old school guy, evident from always playing upper classmen and constant references to his Italian heritage. These two ingredients caused Joe to constantly back Morelli when it was obvious he was a below average quarterback.

I'm not blaming Morelli. He had the arm to be a great QB, but his decision making was atrocious, which could have been b/c JayPa was his mentor.

This is just a simple case of an old man too stubborn to give up on a fellow Italian was just not good enough to make it big.

by Stately NOVA Lion on Mar 24, 2008 5:21 PM EDT   0 recs

You could be on to something.
Is Pat Devlin Irish? Maybe that's why he's not playing.
For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Mar 24, 2008 6:24 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Devlin is an Irish surname....
AND one time during an interview, Joe did say (about Kevin Kelly)..."I like the kid, even though he's Irish".

This must be real tough for Joe to decide between a Black QB and an Irish QB....guess Cianciolo really does have a legitimate chance to play.

by Stately NOVA Lion on Mar 25, 2008 4:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs