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BSD Reflects On Pitt

Lioneye_edited_tiny by BSD on in Football

Thanks to everyone for pitching in and keeping BSD going the past few days in my absense. I never know what we're going to get when I hold Open Blog Days on BSD, but I'm always pleasantly surprised. I figured we would get one or two posts on Joe and the state of the program, but I never thought we would see so much enthusiasm over the Pitt Rivalry or lack thereof. I must be honest, I didn't have time to read all of the comments as they were coming too fast and furious to keep up with. But I did cruise through some of them to make sure they were clean and we weren't getting flamed by any Pitt trolls. Since everyone else gave their view I figure I would give mine as well before we move on to other things.

The Pitt-Penn State series needs to happen. It may not be on the level of Ohio State and Michigan. It probably wouldn't be thrust into a prime time slot on ABC. It may be a mostly one-sided rivalry. It may not make sense financially. But I don't care. Rivalries aren't about national exposure and making money. Lehigh and Lafayette isn't exactly a big-money-prime-time game either. But ask those teams and they would tell you there is no other game on the schedule they would rather win. That's what rivalries are about. They're about bragging rights over Thanksgiving dinner. And a new generation of Pitt and PSU fans is slowly becoming indifferent toward the animosity these two proud institutions once shared.

The problem comes in the details of making this happen. To Tim Curley and Joe Paterno I would say give up this notion of not being able to work a series with Pitt around the need to schedule seven home games. That's hogwash. Michigan manages to get Notre Dame on the schedule every year and still get seven home games. You can make it happen if you want to. It just takes some creative scheduling. On the years you go to Pitt you will just have to find three other opponents to come to Penn State. You know Temple is always game. And I'm sure there are plenty of Coastal Carolinas out there willing to take a beating for a paycheck. You may not be able to get a 2-for-1 with Pitt. So make it a 3-for-2 or 6-for-4. Just make it happen.

To Pitt I would say give up your pride. You are a struggling program in a weak conference. You're practically giving your tickets away and you still can't fill your stadium. You need Penn State and the gauranteed sellout its fans would give you. And you would probably make more money it traveling to Penn State than you would in a home game against Buffalo or Bowling Green. So take the 3-for-2 deal Curley offered you.

I think it was last year sometime when Joe Paterno said something like "We'll never play Pitt as long as I'm around." That's a shame, because millions of Pennsylvania residents used to look forward to this storied rivalry every year. I'm convinced the two schools will meet again someday. It will probably be after Joe Paterno retires, and that's fine. I just hope that the spirit of the game is still there after the layoff and the young generation of fans doesn't look at it as just another game.

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It's all geographic...

I think the key thing that makes for a good traditional, longstanding rivalry is geography.  Aside from USC-ND, how many other longstanding traditional rivalries aren't based on geography?  I mean, tUoOS and scUM are still fighting the vestiges of a dispute over Toledo.  TOLEDO.  (Which says a lot about both schools.)

Being that I live in PGH and have friends who are Pitt fans/alumni, I'd love to see the Pitt series restarted.  If I couldn't have that, I guess I'd most like to see a WVU series restarted -- which would (a) provide a legitimate opponent (although we'll see where they are 5 years after Dick Rod) in geographic proximity, and (b) overshadow Pitt's rivalry with WVU, which would piss Pitt folk off to no end.  Doubly delicious.  

Nebraska, Alabama, ND are all periodic rivlaries that were based on moments in time -- what was going on at particular points in time in College Football.  They can still be big games, but not rivalries.  The Pitt thing was different.  I disagee with the poster who said the desire for a Pitt revival is based on people pining for the 1970s and 1980s.  Pitt is always going to be three hours away from State College, and people there will always detest the Nittany Lions, JoePa and folks like us.  That's the real fun of it.  If they're a cupcake, so be it; they'll play their best game that week.  But there's juice to that game that isn't based on how either team's season is going -- that's the value I see.

by 94 Nittany Champs on Apr 4, 2008 10:29 AM EDT   0 recs

I still say
That we don't need a designated rival...yes let's get rid of the "fluff" teams and schedule some real games...since our head coach has all but given up going out of his house to recruit star players we need to be more nationally recognized and return to our powerhouse form...I wish we would schedule games agains USC, UCLA, Texas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Florida, FSU, Bama, and other great football teams with good history to thier respective progams...I like that we are playing Oregon this year but I think we can do better,  I really liked it a couple years ago when OSU played down in Texas, yeah they got beat but it was a good game and it gave alot of athletes in that area (who are not priveldged to see many osu games) a chance to see the buckeyes in action and I feel that is what PSU needs...lets go to some other stadiums and knock some heads around if we lose we lose, shit happens sometimes but I believe that our TEAM can play with any team in the country year in and year out (QB's playing against any team is another issue) we may not win but we can play with them and you know it will be a damn good football game

by Lion Alum on Apr 4, 2008 12:08 PM EDT   0 recs

agreed, cupcakes=bad
Games against the likes of Coastal Carolina, Temple, SUNY-Buffalo & Directional Michigan/Illinois (and get ready for a trifecta of those games (plus Syracuse) in 2009, UGH!) do NOTHING to boost Penn State's profile for the polls/BcS/recruiting wars.  I can see the desire to have one tune-up game against a weak team, but other than that, please, let's play teams that we can actually get credit for beating.  Personally, I don't care whether that would be Pitt, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, or other big-name national schools like Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Miami, Alabama, Auburn, Florida, LSU, Tennessee (except we do tend to play SEC teams a lot in January as it is), USC or Oregon, as long as they take the place of one or two of the cupcakes we currently play annually.

Heck, scUM manages to play ND plus at least one other respectable non-conference game each year, and they still get their 2 MAC games to pad their record and pocketbooks.  If PSU wants to be seen nationally as being on par with or greater than Michigan or Ohio State, they have to start playing more quality competition outside of the Big 11 (and start beating scUM and aOSU too, obviously).  Penn State should never be satisfied with Syracuse or Virginia being our lone "marquee" non-conference game.  Kudos to them for getting Oregon State added this year, but they really need to do more in the future.  And above all else, PLEASE don't schedule any more DI-AA games, as those hurt us in Big Ten tiebreakers.  Maybe getting shut out of the Rose Bowl because we had a I-AA team on the schedule is what it'll take before the PSU athletic dept. wakes up though...

Let's Go State!

by Gopher Broke on Apr 4, 2008 1:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Temple isn't as bad as you portray them
and neither was Buffalo, maybe traditionally but not last year. And I think Ohio State scheduled 2 I-AA teams last year didn't they?

by PSU Nick on Apr 4, 2008 2:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

true, but...
Okay, so Temple does have the potential to develop into a decent MAC program.  If they can consistently win 5-8 games every year, they'll start garnering some respect.  But for the perception of Temple=ultimate doormat to change nationally, they'll have to take another step forward from what they did in 2007, to start to erase the atrociousness of their program this decade prior to then.  Same goes for Buffalo.  If either/both teams can make it to the Motor City Bowl or knock of a BCS team occasionally, they'll get respect.  But still, beating Temple this year still won't mean as much as beating an Oregon State or an Iowa, let's face facts here.  That was more my general point.

Oh, and aO$U only played one I-AA team last year, Youngstown State (where the $weater vest used to coach).  And my point there remains too, that we have nothing to gain and everything to lose (including a potential Rose Bowl berth) by even playing a I-AA team instead of at least a bottom-feeding I-A team.  I'd rather shut out FIU 59-0 than blow out Coastal Carolina 77-3.  And I'd rather not risk losing the chance to make fun of scUM for losing to Appalachian State.  Ever.

by Gopher Broke on Apr 4, 2008 5:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I understand what you're saying
my point was Ohio State played an I-AA team and made it to the National Championship game. As long as that's tolerated in college football, there is no incentive for AD's to play a really meaningful OOC schedule. I don't agree with it, it's just the way it is. Frankly, I think the Big Ten needs to make sure everyone in the conference plays each other.

by PSU Nick on Apr 4, 2008 6:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I do envy some of the schools
that have the long standing rivalries - I grew up with the PSU/pitt rivalry and thought that it was pretty intense.  However, when in grad school a classmate from north carolina informed me that I had no appreciation real meaning of "rivalry" or the intensity of the competition between schools (as he had gone to chapel hill - chip, meet shoulder).  Of course, this is the same fella who got all offended when I called his football stadium "cute" - we had a definition/vocabulary dilemma.

by PSUgirl on Apr 4, 2008 12:19 PM EDT   0 recs

overall
BSD gives, to my mind, the best argument for the Pitt rivalry.  I bet/hope it returns after Joe retires, which would at least give us all something to be happy about when that dark day comes.  

Moreover, I agree with the general idea that we need a rival again, if Pitt or someone else or Pitt and someone else.  In one of the other post's comments, somebody mentioned VaTech, and I think that's a capital idea.  Virginia Tech would actually be a rivalry, in that both teams are usually good, we're close enough geograhpically for it to be sustainable, and best yet, Tech lacks another clear football rival.  They're too much better than UVA and UMD on a year-in, year-out basis for those to be reasonably called rivalries.  

More than anything, I'd like to see us playing either VA Tech, Maryland, WVU, Pitt, or UVA every year, ideally two of those teams each year.  Winning those games consistently will renew our recruiting pre-eminence in the mid-Atlantic.  

by spakajewia on Apr 4, 2008 12:54 PM EDT   0 recs

Further
The Tech fans I know and work with are bored with their "rivalry" with UVA.  Similar to the reasonable people among us with regards to Pitt, they are tired of thumping on an in-state rival that can't consistently match up on the field.  Also, UVA fans have no heart so the Tech people are really looking for a team with a big, active fanbase to go up against.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.

by 06Lion on Apr 4, 2008 1:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Isn't Miami...
moreso than UVA, Va Tech's biggest rival.  They always play competitive games and that ACC matchup garners a lot of viewership.

by Screen Name 20 on Apr 4, 2008 1:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Miami
Miami as a program is starting to fall off the radar, and because of geographical distance it's hard to sustain a solid rivalry.  Not to mention, Miami's biggest rival is Florida State.  Miami views the Tech game much like OSU views a game against us...just a big one before THE big one.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.

by 06Lion on Apr 4, 2008 1:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

If we can manufacture a rivalry
Why don't we manufacture it with Wisconsin?
For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Apr 4, 2008 1:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Taken
They already have Minnesota as their rival.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Apr 4, 2008 1:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

iowegians
We'd be, at best, Wisconsin's #3 rival.  Minnesota, Wisconsin & Iowa all hate each other and each one has the other two as rivalries #1 and #1a.  For those teams, those trophies mean everything (Paul Bunyan's Axe, Floyd of Rosedale, Heartland Trophy); the only thing that could trump the trophies would be a trip to Pasadena, of course.

At best we're aOSU's #2 rival, and Michigan's #4 rival.  Penn State is never gonna be anyone's #1 rival, unless we start up the Pitt series again (but do they hate PSU more than they hate WVU??).  Let's just get used to that and start scheduling all sorts of nationally-respectable teams.

Let's Go State!

by Gopher Broke on Apr 4, 2008 2:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes...
Pitt fans still hate PSU more than anyone else, WVU included.  An example:  a couple of years ago I went to a big Pitt-WVU game, a game in which the conference title was on the line.  The game was at Heinz Field.  I expected to see a bunch of "We hate the Mounties" stuff all over the place.

Instead, at one of the most prominent tailgates in the lots, I find JoePa hanging in effigy.  You can easily come by lots of anti-PSU stuff around the lots at any given home game.  13-9 may be the flavor of the month, but people there are STILL talking about 12-0.  

I swear, most Pitt fans are still hung up on 48-14.  Even the ones who weren't there and weren't alive.  It's in their blood.

by 94 Nittany Champs on Apr 7, 2008 10:58 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Reasonable?
What the hell is that supposed to mean?  
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Apr 4, 2008 3:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ha
You like how I slipped that one in there?
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.

by 06Lion on Apr 4, 2008 10:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I read a comment in the "Fan Line"
in the Harrisburg Patriot News last year that there were some big wigs with Pitt University on a golf outing and the topic of playing Penn State came up.  Now again, this is only rumor and innuendo, but the Pitt big shots said that the series will resume once JoePa is gone.  Something to think about.

by Ab4PSU on Apr 4, 2008 5:42 PM EDT   0 recs

Pitt Big Wigs
I heard some Pitt Big Wigs who said it would stop raining as soon as Joe Paterno left too. There was a car wreck on route 51 near the Giant Eagle that was all his fault to.

Also, global warming, falling real estate values, the crisis in Darfur, global cooling, and a problems realtive to Hubbell Space Telescope.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Apr 5, 2008 11:02 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

With 12 games it's easy
to make a decent OOC schedule in September:

Week 1:  Manageable home opener, if you want to be creative maybe we can get someone like Navy or Hawaii to come for a one-shot deal.

Week 2:  Annual home-and-home with Pitt

Week 3:  High profile home-and-away series games like we've done with Notre Dame and Nebraska recently

Week 4: Temple at home

This will give seven home games and it's something that can actually be done in the near future, and there's no need to change conference affiliations.  (And, if one year there's only six home games, it's not like the place is going to turn to dust.)

I'm not sure how realistic it is to get anyone other than Pitt as a regular OOC rival.  Everybody we've gotten is doing a two-game series, like ND, Nebraska, Virginia, BC and the upcoming Syracuse games.  What high-profile OOC team is out there that wants to schedule Penn St. for a 10 game home and home series?

by Joe 96alum on Apr 4, 2008 10:08 PM EDT   0 recs

No way......
do we give Pitt a home and home.    One of the big reasons JoePa is against that is because Pitt sells PSU tickets as part of a package.   Yes I know Temple did that this year, but Joe likes Golden and wants to help the Temple program....also the tickets were no where near what Pitt would charge for the same.   It would be nice to get Pitt back on the schedule...though personally I would rather see Bama on there year in and out.  Having Pitt on the schedule as a staple will never happen though until Pitt realizes they are not getting a one and one.  
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?

by pic15 on Apr 6, 2008 8:57 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Pitt
  I'm relatively new to Penn State football so I don't have a point of reference for the Pitt rivalry. IMHO why elevate Pitt to Penn State's level? Why revive an in-state program that sounds like it's on life support? The first order of business should be that PSU remains the premier program in the State. In effect you build a wall around the State and keep the best players home at State College. To that end, it's only a matter of time before the Big Ten adds another member and goes to a divisional format. Based on geography (and Network $$$) that new addition will probably be either Syracuse or Rutgers. The new Big Ten East would then be:

Penn State
Ohio State
Rutgers/Syracuse
Indiana
Purdue
Northwestern/Illinois

Plenty of choices for our #1 rival.

Reg4

by Regulator4 on Apr 5, 2008 8:53 AM EDT   0 recs

O MY
Listen.  Pitt is not on life support.  THey play in a pro stadium, they practice at the same facility as the Steelers.  To a lot of kids, thats pretty cool.  Look.  Since the Stache took over, they've been out recruiting us.  They've just been sucking on the field.

However, sooner or later, that talent will be incapable of losing to Navy, and they'll be knocking on the door of 8-9 wins in a conference as weak as the Big East every year.

If you want to be the premier program in the state, you do so by beating the other one, not by trying to pretend that they suck.  So what if they get a bump out of it? We'll have established ourselves beyond any shade of a doubt as the best program in PA.

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Apr 5, 2008 11:27 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Other than this year.....
I don't think Pitt has been outrecruiting us! Does everyone forget we had a top 5 class three years ago and a legit top 15 class 2 years ago.  We did not have a lot of scholarships to play with this year and we lost out on some kids we thought we were going to get. If Michael Shaw doesn't fall prey to the dark side and we get either Deion Walker or the kid from MD....this year would have been a very good class too.  Let's see what happens this year....there are a lot of scholarships to work with and a lot of western-PA kids on the Board.
I thought only safeties played 15 yards off the ball?

by pic15 on Apr 6, 2008 9:00 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

My man...
We don't have to prove a damn thing to Pitt, their fans, or to anybody else for that fact.

Take the benefit of my experience, Pitt fans will never, ever, stop whining about Penn State, if it's not this it will be something else. It's their lot in life. Leave them to it.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Apr 5, 2008 11:47 AM EDT   0 recs

Hmmmm...
Tell that to Jonathan Baldwin and Lucas Nix.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Apr 5, 2008 12:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Okay, sure.
Neither one of those guys ever considered Penn State, nor did they even visit any other schools. They are proof positive of what I said yesterday but you denied.  There are certain kids that are going to Pitt no matter what.

You think those two kids whould have considered Penn State if they played Pitt? That's crazy. If Penn State was the only college on the planet they would have joined the army.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Apr 5, 2008 12:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

OK You Win
Lets not play Pitt, because every recruit in the WPIAL already knows where they're going to school and theres nothing that can change that.

Lets not play Pitt because they are a horrible program that is on the level of Coastal Carolina, Florida International, Temple, and Buffalo, and beating the adds nothing to our BCS resume.

Lets not play them because we'll be damned if they make a buck.

Lets not play them because we can invent rivalries with others if we want to.  It just takes 40-50 years when we're all in nursing homes watching the game with tubes in our veins, and with no idea about whats going on.

Lets not play them because we're too good for them, even though just a few short years ago, it was THEY who were selling out their stadium for every home game while we were losing to Iowa 6-4.  But hey, losing to Navy in OT is much more embarassing than having the other team take a safety on purpose because they knew we couln't score.

You were right.  What an idiot I am.

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Apr 5, 2008 2:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Two questions
50 words or less

[1] Why do you hate Pitt?

[2] How many times in a row would Pitt have to beat Penn State for you go to PItt instead of Penn State?

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Apr 5, 2008 4:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Psh
  1. More than the Russians
  2. This isn't about me.  Its about Joe Schmo with 4.3 speed thats never been into either school that much.  You've got to convince him, a native Pittsburgher, that playing 3 hours from home on cowfields is better than being a star an entire city can rally behind.  You've got to convince him that the Penn State coaching staff has a better chance at getting pro scouts to see him than the Stache, who probably talks to scouts over lunch.  Most important, you've gotta convince him that a 8-9 win Pitt team isn't nearly as good as an 8-9 win Penn State team.  The only way to do that is to play.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Apr 6, 2008 12:10 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You didn't answer either question
For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Apr 6, 2008 12:15 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Of Course "The Russians" proves my point
You were not even born when the [1] the Berlin Wall fell, or [2] Penn State and Pitt last played a game that mattered. Truth is you have no personal connection to this "rivalry". You hate Pitt because you think that is what your supposed to do. Just like the Russians.
For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Apr 6, 2008 12:24 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

O Your Rihgt
The fact that I've spent the last 15 years of my life sparring with Pitt fans on a daily basis contributes nothing to the hate I feel for them.  I just hate Pitt because my dad told me too.

The reason I didn't answer your question is because I saw where you were going with it.  I'm no sucker, and you know exactly what I meant.

There are very few kids that are going to go to Pitt or Penn State no matter what.  THey're going to go to the situation thats best for them, not the situation that carrys on the family tradition.

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Apr 6, 2008 1:53 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well yeah, I am.
The fact that I've spent the last 15 years of my life sparring with Pitt fans on a daily basis contributes nothing to the hate I feel for them.

Exactly. If you are 18, Penn State and Pitt have played seven times in your lifetime.  Penn State has won six of them, the last four were an absolute shell of what the series once was (and it was never that great, 76-82 excepted). It's like seeing Pink Floyd now, versus seeing them in the 70's, it's just not the same thing, and it never will be. In a way it sucks for you that your Penn State experience won't have that, but it won't, whether they play or not.

Most of the people who are in favor of renewing this game are nostalgic for the "old days". But you grew up on Penn State playing a Big Ten schedule. There is no reason for you to give two shits about Pitt other than their fans are annoying. You aren't nostalgic for your childhood Penn State, ironically, you're nostalgic for mine. I guess you are entitled to that, but it doesn't make any sense.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Apr 7, 2008 5:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Jesse.......
Don't ask me why......but it seems incongruous for you to take issue with wanting to line up Pitt again for reasons of nostalgia while including championships won during the Reagan Presidency in your signature.

It reminds me of my Flordia buddy who tells me to stop living in the past about Penn State while he simultaneously slobbers over Steve Spurrier.  

Not trying to pick a fight, just sayin.

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Apr 7, 2008 7:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Thank You
I'm done arguing with you jesse, I've had you chasing your tail for a week now.  There are pleanty of other reasons to play Pitt, and if your that blind/ignorant to them, then theres nothing I can say that will change your mind.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Apr 7, 2008 8:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'll move on then
Eric...

The signature is with respect to Penn State teams that I have personally seen that I thought were the best in the country. It's my own personal national championship poll.  Incongruous or not, no beat writer shapes my opinion as to who was the best.  The Nebraska '94 debate doesn't interest me, I think we were the best, and that's good enough for me. Don't like the results of my poll? Whatever.

Fugi...

Seriously, good luck at Penn State. I hope you do well.

You previously wrote, "Michigan State's win over Pitt in the NCAA's a couple of weeks ago was easily my favorite sports memory so far in 2008".  

That's sad.

I hope you find something more fulfilling in your life than hating Pitt, because it's a waste of time. But just like I leave Pitt fans to their lot in life, I'll leave you to yours.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Apr 8, 2008 1:16 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't have......
a problem with your poll or your pride in Penn State tradition.

I am one of those guys that can go see The Rolling Stones now and appreciate it for what its worth.  The fact that they aren't what they once were doesn't bother me at all.  

Whether we schedule Pitt or not has nothing to do with whether OSU or somebody else becomes "our rival".  You bring up great points on a lot of fronts.  However, if I remember correctly, I think you are an Attorney.  As an Attorney, I know you understand that oftentimes those that make the best arguments aren't necessarily right (see OJ Simpson).  I am not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion, but some things just feel right.  It might not feel right to you, but obviously there are a lot of people who would still like to see this game played for a lot of reasons that may or may not make sense to other people.  But then again, passion isn't necessarily something you can logically explain.

Eric Watters Atlanta, Ga.

by ech2os on Apr 8, 2008 4:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Pitt is not
on life support, when you think about them you should think about Michigan St. or Iowa as a reference point, those programs are at about the same level.

It's not about proving/not proving or doing anything for Pitt.  It's about doing what's best for Penn State, and that's playing a game in Pittsburgh every other year.  It solidifies recruiting in the region by giving maximum visibility to the Penn State "brand".  With the Big Ten Network pulling games off of Comcast, there's less visibility when PSU plays the cupcakes they've been scheduling, and you couldn't even watch the conference game against Illinois here last year on the cable system that the majority of people have.

by Joe 96alum on Apr 5, 2008 12:11 PM EDT   0 recs

Amen
Well Struck
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Apr 5, 2008 12:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Jesse, to an extent
I agree that some kids are going to choose one or the other no matter what.  But you also have to consider cases where it's us vs.  tOSU or WVU.  By offering a chance to play a game or two in front of their hometown "peeps", we would be offering everything that it is possible for Penn St. to offer a western PA recruit, in addition to our own program and facilities.

by Joe 96alum on Apr 5, 2008 2:12 PM EDT   0 recs

U of Pitt
      A old rule of politics states that you never elevate an opponent to your level. The same holds true here.  By reinstating a rivalry with Pitt, PSU is telling the football world that they are on an equal level. That is not the message you want to send out. We have zero to gain and everything to lose by playing Pitt. When we win it's no big deal. We're supposed to beat them. If we lose, it's all over ESPN. It is PSU's best interest to treat them as a minor program and ignore them. You do not want to create another elite program in Pennsylvania
     We would be better served continuing the home and away series with premier programs such as Notre Dame.The new series with Syracuse points to a possible expansion of the Big Ten into New York.  I think we can expect these types of match-ups in the future as the conference looks for its 12th member.
Reg4

by Regulator4 on Apr 5, 2008 4:47 PM EDT   0 recs

First of all
this isn't politics. Second, Pitt will do its best to become an elite program on its own.  Third, did ND look like a premier program last year?  That series is hit-and-miss anyway, we last played what, 17 years ago?  So we play them when as often as the 17-year locusts come out?  And last, Big 10 expansion is a hypothetical at this point.  There would have to be interest on both sides, and I'm not sure anyone's looking to join the Big 10.

by Joe 96alum on Apr 5, 2008 5:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I disagree
Put Pitt on the schedule. Then beat them 8 out of 10 games. Then it will be hard for anyone to say we're on the same level.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Apr 5, 2008 5:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Same point
If beating Pitt 8 out of 10 proves we're better, it's done. We beat Pitt 3 out of 4, 8 out of 10 and 23 out of 30.
For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Apr 5, 2008 5:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Looking Forward
   Despite their total collapse this season, Notre Dame is still one of the top five programs and will remain so forever. We need to consistently schedule teams of this stature. Perhaps the non-conference formula should be two difficult games and two human sacrifice games. Playing two difficult non-conference games each year will guarantee television exposure which is the fuel that drives any program. Pittsburgh does not fall into either the premier or sacrifice category. I think it's a mistake to play them. Again I'll state PSU gains nothing fro the renewal of this rivalry.
   That brings us to Big Ten expansion which I believe will happen within the next five years. The rise of the SEC into the premier league in College Football all but guarantees it. In this regard college football is exactly like politics. You have to convince cable systems, sponsors, fans and recruits that your "product" is the best available. The Divisional format aids in this perception. Since Penn State will play OSU each year, probably for the Divisional title, the natural rivalry of two border States can only grow. The result is a better program and more enjoyment for all.
Reg4

by Regulator4 on Apr 5, 2008 11:12 PM EDT   0 recs

Top 5?
Are you serious?  Like actually serious?

When is the last time they won a bowl game?  I can name AT LEAST 10 programs that have had more success than them this decade, and one of them would be our own Nittany Lions, despite having several losing seasons.  Texas, Ohio St., Florida, USC, Weast Virginia, Oklahoma, Auburn, Wisconsin, Clemson, and Virginia Tech have all been consistantly better than Notre Dame since 2000.  If you're a program striving to get to Notre Dame's level, then God help you.

No one has to convince ESPN that the Big 10 is worth putting on television.  The more games they have under contract, the more money they make.  Why do you think we launced the BTN?  

Now as for scheduling 2 tough opponents in the non-conference, I say, don't hold your breat.  When Paterno says we need 7 home games, he means it.  We won't get that if we're scheduling Texas and Alabama every year.  Additionally, its going to be pretty tough to get through the Big 10 AND two marquee non-conf. opponents with 2 or less losses, so it makes little sense to take the a chance at the BCS away from yourself.

Pitt is a perfect tweener.  They don't suck horribly (Temple, CC, Fla. Intl), but they aren't a marquee program thats going to threaten us to much either.  They'll help the BCS resume, but not hurt it.

Hitching your arguement to a huge rivalry with Ohio St. is silly talk.  We'll never, in a million years, reach the level of Michigan in their minds, so why try?  The hate will never be mutual.  To get to true rivalry status, we'd have to split about 20 epic games, and even if they all happened in consecutive seasons, I'll be about 40.  I'm not prepared to wait for that my friend.  

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Apr 5, 2008 11:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Exposure
Since joining the Big Ten Penn State's exposure to the rest of the country has suffered. Outside of Big Ten country, we play (on the road) 1 OCC game. I don't see how playing Pitt every year is going to improve the situation. We need to have our one away OCC game scattered across the country. Penn State  made it's name in the late 60's, 70's and 80's by playing teams all across the country UCLA, USC, Alabama, Tennessee, Missouri, Nebraska, ND, Miami, Colorado and so forth. We need to have our one away OCC game scattered across the country. I live in the Chicago area. Unless Penn State is playing Northwestern or Illinois it doesn't make the evening sports news and is lucky to get a paragraph in the city's newspapers. Penn State's football program with it's current scheduling is becoming very isolated. An additional downside to playing cupcakes is the cupcakes news coverage in their own geographical area is very limited.(they're losers)

I think an ideal scheduling philosophy would be to divide the 120 division I/1A teams up into groups of 30 based on their average ranking for the past 30 years. Then try and schedule 1 team out of each division of 30 (there would be four divisions 1-30,31-60,61-90 and 91-120) We could schedule home and away with the teams ranked 1-60 on alternating years and get home only schedules for those in the 61-120 category. I would try and schedule it as follows: easiest first, second easiest 2nd, toughest 3rd and 2nd toughest 4th. By playing the 2nd toughest 4th instead of 3rd, it should allow us to enter the Big Ten competition on a positive note with a win.

by ageing lion on Apr 6, 2008 12:59 AM EDT   0 recs

Well
Believe it or not, the Nits rarely make a splash on the local news in Pittsburgh, let alone Chicago.  Thats what I've been arguing here the last three days, we need visability in our own damn pipeline before we start worrying about recruits in California.  Creaming Pitt goes a long way in establishing that visibility.

I'm not going to argue your point about going around the country a little.  I'd like to get a road trip or two that isnt to some stadium outside a grain elevator or in exotic Ann Arbor or Columbus.  It would be a great change of pace to out of Big 10 land like once in 10 years.

I don't think we need a formula to schedule teams, we just need to find some big names and play them.  I think Pitt qualifies as a big name that we could put on the schedule every year that people will recognize and respect.  At the same time, they aren't going to hurt us very often.  I think that makes them a perfect fit on the schedule.  Add a big game with a powerhouse (one of the ones you named) and a couple of cup cakes, and suddenly you've got an OCC thats not going to hurt you later on.  Pitt falls right in that intermediate zone, and they're dying to play us, so we should take advantage of that and get a deal done.

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Apr 6, 2008 2:03 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Seriously?
We're in the Pittsburgh news all the time. Generally something derogatory about Joe

by PSU Nick on Apr 6, 2008 2:40 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

My Point Exactly
Whens the last time a Pittsburgh media personality reported live from Happy Valley?
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Apr 6, 2008 2:42 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

This is Pointless
Listen folks, there are ways for Penn State to get Pitt on the schedule after 2009.  However, in looking at Pitt's future schedules, it looks like it would be a near impossibility for them to be able to accomodate us on our terms.  They've got their non conference line up pretty well, and, if they're like us, and need 7 home games, it would be damn near impossible to play them ahead of 2016.

So, lets just agree to disagree about whether or not we should play them, and move on, because its not going to happen even if PSU wanted it to.

God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Apr 6, 2008 2:45 AM EDT   0 recs

In my opinion
it would happen pretty fast if Penn St. wanted it to, the ball's in our court with this.  With 12 games now on the schedule, it should be workable, especially if you look a the flotsam that's showed up on both teams schedules in recent years.

by Joe 96alum on Apr 6, 2008 2:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well
Thats what I thought, but, I looked at their schedule through 2014, and I don't see how we could both get it done with 7 home games for each of us.  THey've got some pretty big names on there that they just can't dump.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on Apr 6, 2008 3:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Idle thought
Think Pitt would agree to a 3-and-2 in football if we agreed to a 3-and-2 in basketball favoring Pitt? (Or 6-and-4's?)  Let's think outside of the box a little.  They're not where we are in football, and we're not where they are in b-ball.

by Joe 96alum on Apr 6, 2008 2:17 PM EDT   0 recs

And finally
an outside view of the whole thing:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls05/news/story?id=2270073

Scroll down to:

"Ohio State is probably Penn State's biggest current rival, but that series does not come close to matching the ferocity that defined the Nittany Lions' annual in-state grudge matches with Pittsburgh."

You get that with people from the same high school, rival high schools, or county going to the different schools, and that's something we can't get with any other college.

by Joe 96alum on Apr 6, 2008 2:25 PM EDT   0 recs

That's not an outside view
I believe David Jones put together Penn State's entry

by PSU Nick on Apr 6, 2008 5:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Everybody keeps talking about...
...How big this rivalry used to be. The last time these two teams met and both had a winning record was 1991 (Pitt was 6-5, PSU was 11-2). The last time they played and both were ranked, 1982.

From 1976-1982 Pitt and Penn State played seven important and exciting football games. That is pretty much the relevant history of this rivalry.  Seven football games, played thirty years ago.

This used to be a big game. It's not anymore.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Apr 7, 2008 11:32 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

But
you don't have a chance for another seven-game stretch like that if it's not on the schedule.

by Joe 96alum on Apr 7, 2008 1:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sure

The point is this, you think that Penn State and Pitt have been rivals for a long time; I think Penn State and Pitt were rivals a long time ago.

I can't stand living in the past, and that's all this is. It's nostalgia. We're in the Big Ten now; our job is to beat Ohio State, Michigan and everybody else.  You think our season would have been a success last year if we had the same record but beat Pitt? I've got news for you, that is exactly what Pitt fans did to feel better about their crappy teams fro thirty years. "Sure we went 4-7, but at least we beat Penn State". We don't need, and I don't want, some built in safety valve that lets us "save" a crappy year.

Let's focus on beating the teams we play rather than waxing poetic about teams we used to play.

For the Glory National Champions 1982, 1986, 1994,

by jesse. on Apr 7, 2008 2:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The Schedule
I'm all for focusing on Michigan and Ohio State, but the fact remains we still have to put four non-conference teams on the schedule every year. One of them might as well be Pitt. I would much prefer playing Pitt to playing Coastal Carolina or Buffalo because the game would a) mean something to me and b) be a better tune up game for the bigger fish we play in October and November.
Mike
Black Shoe Diaries

Hail to the Lion!

by BSD on Apr 7, 2008 4:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Damn Serious
   For your info Notre Dame remains the most popular and successful program in college football despite last season. They are the only school that can remain independent and maintain a sweetheart television deal. Their merchandise licensing revenues probably exceeds the next three programs combined.They won't be down for long.
   Starting in 2009 PSU has agreed to home and away series with Alabama, Virginia and Nebraska. This should be great for the program. Sometime in 2016 or so the majority will probably get their wish and Pittsburgh will return to the schedule. Like they say, be careful what you wish for.
Reg4

by Regulator4 on Apr 6, 2008 8:56 PM EDT   0 recs

You Didn't Answer the Question
How are they a top 5 program? Give me one shred of tangible onfield success.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...

by fugimaster24 on